Three Words That Change How You're Remembered with Gratitude Expert Chester Elton | 140

Chester Elton has spent 40 years teaching gratitude to executives. He's sold 1.6 million books. He's coached leaders at American Express, AT&T, the World Bank. But when his designer friend Ayse Birsel asked him "how have you designed time with your family?", his answer was three words: I don't do that.

The world's leading gratitude expert wasn't doing the thing he teaches. In this conversation, Chester shares the question that rebuilt his family, the Harvard 85-year happiness study advice that changed how he schedules his life, and the story of his father, who sang at his own funeral through a cassette tape he pre-recorded before he died.

We go deep on why the richest man in the world could never say "enough," why deflecting compliments is actually insulting the person giving them, why he carries gratitude stones in his pocket on every flight, and the single practice that separates a life worth living from a life that ends with an empty grave.

If you've been that person who is so obsessed with what they're building that they maybe, just maybe, leave behind the people you are closest to... this one is for you.

⏱️ Chapters:
0:00 — Cold open: my father sang at his own funeral
1:22 — Where warmth actually comes from (it's not what you think)
6:41 — "I want to look successful on the outside while sacrificing everything inside"
10:23 — The three words that ruined the richest man in the world
14:00 — What Harvard's 85-year happiness study actually recommends
16:57 — The Christmas Carol test: what's on your gravestone?
19:45 — The cassette tape my father left behind
21:26 — "I think the killer's in the room"
23:51 — Marshall Goldsmith: why deflecting compliments insults people
27:45 — The question that rebuilt his family
29:32 — Why he wears orange (the Aesop fable behind the brand)
31:49 — The gratitude stone he invented (and gives to strangers)
33:05 — Barbara the flight attendant
39:23 — The platinum rule beats the golden rule
53:55 — The one thing you can do today
54:37 — Sonder: everybody's got a story

🔗 Connect with Chester: Website: https://chesterelton.com The Culture Works: https://thecultureworks.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chesterelton/ Anxiety at Work Podcast: available on Spotify and Apple

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Be grateful, be kind, be of service.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Your entire career has been built on this principle.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

There's a great interview with Nelson Rockefeller, the richest man in the world. It begs the question, how much money do you really need? And his answer was just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

All of this because I realized that like so many people out there, I was chasing my internal validation from an external measurement.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

My dear friend, it's a wonderful designer. She asked me a question, Jessica, what's the most important thing in your life? And I said, Oh, it's my family. Tell me about how you've designed time with your family and your family traditions into your life. And I went, yeah, I don't do that. One of the things that we decided to do is created a place where we could gather. And we've had it for 11 years now. Every year we bring everybody there. It's our sacred place. When it's all said and done, how do you want to be remembered? My father sang at his own funeral. How does that work? My father was a radio announcer. He said, Look, I'm gonna record Goin' Home for my funeral.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Going home, going home. I'm just going home.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

We're all crying. Was there ever anything he said about the trips we took, the cars we drove, the homes we owned? It was all about his friends, his family, his wife. That's a life that was worth living.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Chester Elton, you have been the executive coach of many for over 40 years in the gratitude space. You're the apostle of appreciation. You've written 17 books that have sold over 1.6 million copies. But aside from all the credentials, I think the thing that I've noticed the most with you just in the last 30 minutes as I've gotten to know you is your warmth that you exude. And I imagine that that has done more for you than any of the credentials that I could have listed today, any of the accolades. So I want to know, just personally, how do you get this warmth?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Well, it's a kind of an open-ended question. You might as well have asked me, like, what's the meaning of life? You know, I grew up in a really happy household. Uh, my parents were very loving and kind. My father in particular was um a happy guy. Uh and so I had a foundation of warmth and love. And a lot of it really does come back down to my faith. You know, my faith. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You you know them as the Mormons. We're going through a rebrand. So we say the whole name now, which takes a lot of time. And it's very much a church of service. We don't have a paid clergy. And so you might be a Sunday school teacher, you might be running the nursery, you might run a congregation, and so on. And so that idea of being of service, while having come from a very happy household, that gave me a really nice foundation of people matter. We're all part of a big spiritual family, and be kind.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

What's your everyday saying that you say to yourself in the morning?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

I get up in the morning and I look in the mirror and say, You handsome devil, don't you ever die?

SPEAKER_00 3:07

I didn't hear that one researching for that. That is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

So, no, my my uh that was a mantra we used. I I paved my way through college by selling books door-to-door, and that was our morning ritual. We'd have all these little saints. You handsome devil, don't die. You handsome devil, don't you ever die. Uh no, my my mantra, I read a great book by um, it was called uh Think Like a Monk by Um, I'll think of his name in a minute. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty, and he says, monks have a mantra, and mine is um be grateful, be kind, be of service. That's my mantra. Be grateful, be kind, be of service.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Well, you know, it it costs nothing to be kind. Um gratitude is a foundation. I mean, I was just with a group um in Milan, Italy, a bunch of executives for a big company said, look, you know, we all have stuff. Everybody's carrying something. Make no mistake about it, though, 99% of the world would trade places with you and me in a heartbeat. Uh, you know, we have a lot to be grateful for. And then service is really the rent you pay for your space in life, uh, was a great quote that I came across. Is, you know, when you have so much, why not give? And and service is one of those things where not only do the people you serve benefit, but you grow and you serve. So one of the great things about gratitude. You know, when you give gratitude to someone, the research shows that not only does the person who receives it, does it brighten their day, it brightens your day. It's one of the few things where the giver and the receiver get mutual benefit. And to me, that comes back to service.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Have you ever heard the saying, if you had the opportunity to put your problems into write your problems down on a piece of paper and put them into a pile with everybody else in the world, and then you have to redraw and see whose life you got, would you put your life and your problems into that pile? No. No. So many people that complain about their lives and forget that their life really is truly amazing. Yeah. That exercise I think is so important and it helps them reframe the idea that wow, my life is actually objectively better than so many people's. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

I I'll never forget. I I was grew up in um uh Vancouver, British Columbia, be beautiful city. By the way, I would go there. Yeah, if you haven't been, yeah, put it on your list. And we were driving somewhere, and you know, uh very much a British colony, you know, British Columbia. And we were driving, and there was a guy in a wonderful British car. It was like a Bentley or a Jaguar or something like that. Austin Martin. And I remember saying to my dad, I said, Wow, look at that car. What would it be like to be that guy? And my dad said, Oh, you don't want to trade places with anybody because you don't know what the rest of that guy's life looked like. That car may be the only good thing in his whole life. So, to your point, you know, why would you trade places when your life was already amazing?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yeah. I so I think I want to dive a little bit deeper into the concept of gratitude because you've taught it as a not only uh soft skill, but something that is so important in terms of leadership and the workplace and being a leader, right? Um, your entire career has been built on this principle that if you lead with gratitude, your employees will stay longer. I just read, and it's no new news, you've been a part of this research for years, but in um Workday's new study, the Human Connection Index, Chris and I have been doing a lot of work with this. Um, they found that employees would rather stay at a place of work where they're given consistent appreciation from their employer than a pay raise. And to me, that is mind-boggling. Really, what that shows, and I want to hear your take on this, but people are so deprived of appreciation and being shown gratitude in the world that they'd rather do that than the one thing that many people claim they work for, which is the money.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Why are people more likely to stay at a place where they feel appreciated than make more money?

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Well, I I I think it comes back, Jack, just a human need. You know, we have a need to be affirmed, to be seen, to be valued, and to be celebrated. And when you have that, now you know, you need to couch that. I mean, if if somebody came to you and said, look, I'll quadruple your pay, you know, that might be quite tempting. Um, the idea though is all things being relatively equal, wouldn't you rather work for someone who values you? And the answer is yes. I remember coming out of college and I remember thinking, boy, if you'd pay me X, I'd do anything. You know, I I'd I'd I'd clean, you know, porta potties. And then you very quickly, uh, when I worked for a leader that wasn't uh particularly uh kind or appreciative, you kind of think, you know what, there isn't enough money on the planet for me to stay here. Um, because you're just miserable. You know, what is your what is your happiness worth? Is there a price uh to pay for that? And there is. And so what you do is you find, and you you've already had this experience already in your young life where people have chased the dollar and lost everything.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Right? Um, we see it all the time. I mean, we're here in New York City. I mean, this is the you know, the money capital. The land of that. Yeah, yeah. And um yeah, you say, so when it's all said and done, what is your legacy? You know, how do you want to be remembered? I I love this hero exercise. You know, who are your heroes and why? And uh a good friend of mine, Aisha Burcel, does this exercise in a in a uh a book she wrote called Design the Life You Love. And she said, it's really interesting. If I asked you your values, you would struggle. But if I asked you who your heroes are and why, you tell me what you value. So it was interesting in the exercise. You know, I put down my father, I put down Scott O'Neill, a guy that I uh admire. I put down Winston Churchill. If you're yeah, if you grow up in the Commonwealth, you know, uh Winston shows up sooner or later. And you list why. I I've done this exercise several times. Never does anybody say he's my hero or she's my hero because they made a lot of money. They're my hero because they had an amazing house, or they drove really expensive cars, or they had incredible jewelry. And that doesn't show up. They're your heroes because they were kind, because they were of service, because they made a difference, because they saw you, they encouraged you. And so it's really interesting that we've gone so far in the capitalist swing where everything is about money. We we we we we have um a government right now where it's just about money. And you say, okay, uh, well, if that's the benchmark, you know, so how are we doing as a nation? Well, the stock market's at an all-time high. Well, there's lots of people that aren't in the stock market. What about them? And and you've probably seen this. Some of the happiest people you know are not the richest people you know. In fact, it's almost the opposite. The most, you know, often the richest people you know are the most unhappy because it's never enough. You know, you get caught in that loop. There was a great interview with Nelson Rockefeller, and at the time he was the richest man in the world. And the New York Times interviewed him, or one of the newspapers of the of the time. He said, Mr. Rockefeller, you're the richest man in the world. It begs the question, how much money do you really need? And his answer was just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

He said that.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

He said that just a little bit more. You know, that that's when your life is so far out of whack.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Wow. Because it would always be just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Well, sure. How much how much money do you need? Well, how much money you got? You know, give it to me, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Yeah. That's why I started this in the first place. All of this, because I realized that, like so many people out there, I was chasing my internal validation from an external measurement.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

I was doing everything I could to look successful on the outside while I was sacrificing everything on the inside. It's like I realized, oh wow, I've sacrificed the thing I want for the thing that was supposed to get it.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah. There's a great saying we we spend so much time trying to impress people that we don't know and probably if we knew wouldn't like, you know, uh a bigger house, bigger car. Uh my mentor over the years, uh Marshall Goldsmith, has been wonderful in putting this in perspective. You know, he said, be happy now. The great Western disease is I'll be happy when? When I make a little more money, uh, when I get a raise, when I have a nicer house or a bigger car, whatever. Uh he said, be happy now. There's lots to be happy about now. And it is interesting that when you think about, you know, I have grown children now, we have grandchildren, and what do they want from you? They want your time. You know, spend time with me. We said, well, what do you remember about growing up? It's it's reading stories, it's having meals together, it's going on trips together. It wasn't you wrote me a check.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

I do think, and research supports it up to a certain point, money does make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Because Yeah, I mean the number keeps shifting a little bit. But what is it like $100,000 or $80,000 a year incrementally? My dad used to say that. He'd say, you know, at a certain point, I mean, how many steak dinners can you eat? You know, I love these guys that have these car collections. Well, you can only drive one at a time. You know, I mean, it's cool that you have 30 cars, but if you drove a different car every day, do you know what I mean? Yes. And by the way, I'm a collector. I like collecting stuff, but at the end of the day, none of my kids want my stuff. I'm I'm just giving I'm giving it all away. You know, I I love history, and so I've got this amazing stamp collection. There isn't there's no one in my family that said, hey dad, when you die, can I have your stamp collection?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

I love stamps. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

You're not even thinking of it, thinking about stamps.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Well, you know, I think uh it raises an interesting point that you talked about earlier, where as a society, we've gotten to the point where we measure our success on the stock market and on metrics such as our economy. And we often disregard things like the humanitarian aspect of uh a culture as being less valuable, less important, less imperative to the state of our union, the state of the world. And from I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I seem to get the idea that you disagree with that a little bit. You think that maybe our priorities have been flipped. We've become preoccupied almost with uh providing and growing and fueling the economy. And in that preoccupation, we've lost the value on the humanness and the basic interaction, human connection.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Am I right in saying Yeah, listen, and and study after study proves it right? If you want to read a great book, read The Good Life by um uh Robert Waldinger. You know, it's this 80-year-plus study that Harford's conducted. You're familiar? Yes. Yeah, yes. And he said, What leads so long, happy, and healthy life? It's deep and meaningful relationships. I had a chance to spend some time with with Bob, and it was wonderful. I said, So how do you do that? And he said, put it in your calendar. I said, What do you mean? He says, So who are you having breakfast with, who are you having lunch with, who who you who are you calling, who are you texting? And and it's so interesting. So I do. I have a morning ritual where I text a bunch of people, just a little positive thought. And I'm always amazed at the second point that I need that today. Or um, I I I love writing letters. It's old school. It back to stamps. You gotta have one. And um, and I and I I love the experience, I love the tactile, I I love the handmade Italian paper and the and the commemorative stamp, not just the one with the flag on it, but you know, the one that's got the Hubble telescope photo or whatever. And to me, the reason those little things are important to me because it shows care. You know, I didn't just grab a scrap of paper and fold it up and put a stamp on a throat. Yeah, you know, I I took the time to get quality paper and a beautiful envelope and a stamp and write it out. I I um was given a tip by a friend years ago. Uh I I'd love that. He said, if you if you want to be more thoughtful in your writing, write with a fountain pen. Why do you think he said that? Yeah. Well, what's a fountain pen? Do you don't know what a fountain pen is? Oh, I'm sorry. So okay, writing started with a quill, right? Do you dip it in ink? That's a fountain pen? It's a fountain pen. It's got a nib, and well, you can put a cartridge or you can dip it in an inkwell.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

And it's a wonderful little engineering marvel because it holds a lot of ink when you dip it in your writing. And the reason he recommended that is with a fountain pen as opposed to a ballpoint or a rollerball or whatever, is you have to slow down just a little bit. And so you're just a little more pensive, you're just a little more thoughtful. And so for me, writing with a fountain pen, and I have several, I'm a collector, and again, my kids don't want them, but I think they're great. These little rituals that just slow you down, let you think a little more, let you connect a little more. You know, uh Bob says, you know, who are you thinking about? Well, drop them a note. And now it's easier than ever. You can drop somebody a text, you can drop them an email, you can call them on your phone. And uh those human connections are more valuable than gems, you know. That's what people remember. Are you familiar with the story of the Christmas Carol?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

No.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

This hurts my heart so much. I'm sorry. My audience is gonna laugh at me. No, they're not gonna laugh at your audience probably has never heard of me either. It's uh a Christmas Carol is one of the great uh books of literature of all time. Okay. And it's the story of Ebenezer Scrooge.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

So it's the story of this businessman in London, and all he ever cared about was money.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Oh, okay. So the the three the Bill Murray movie. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not? Um if you're familiar with uh Donald Duck, his Uncle Scrooge is based on Ebenezer Scrooge. Anyway, so you know he's he's cruel to people, he's he's he's alone, he's a miser, and then he's visited by the ghosts. The ghost of Christmas. Oh, well, first he's he's he's visited by his partner Marley, who's died seven years earlier. And Marley warns him that if you don't change your ways, that you're gonna be burdened with all these chains. He said, I earn these chains link by link. Anyway, he's visited by the ghost of Christmas past, the ghost of Christmas present, and then the ghost of Christmas future, what may or may not be. And his whole life is played out in one dream. And he realizes that he sold his soul. He's got all the money that anyone could ever want, but it's worthless because he's lost his soul. And so overnight he repents and he does all the things he should have. If he visits visits his nephew that's continually inviting him, that he's always blown off. He gives his his poor clerk uh a raise, he he gives money to to his clerk so his son tiny Tim can get an operation and live longer. Anyway, it's it's a it's a wonderful story of redemption. You know, uh Americans, we love a good comeback story, right? And it it it it's just reiterated. His moment is when the the ghost of Christmas future shows in his grave and it's just his name. There's nothing else to say, and no one visits. And you say, okay, well, how do you want to be remembered? What do you want on your tombstone? Man, that guy had a great podcast. I hope not. Man, he could close the deal. Man, he had nice cars. And yet, how much time do we spend on nice cars and big houses and checking our bank accounts every day? I mean, I checked my savings account every day. I mean, I'm curious, how's the market doing? And yet, I don't think my kids are gonna say, man, I'm sure Gladdad had a really good 401k. You know what I mean? You know. So this this it's a long way to go, but you know, Charles Dickens, this brilliant story treat yourself to the Christmas Carol, Jack. It's marvelously written. But this idea of when it's all said and done, how do you want to be remembered?

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Having told you that story, uh, you mentioned earlier uh I I talk about my father all the time, a huge impact on my life. Cheerleader, coach, friend. My father sang at his own funeral. I want you to think about that for a minute. My father sang at his funeral. How does that work? Okay. Thanks, Roskin. So my father was a radio announcer and a beautiful baritone voice. My mother was a wonderful pianist, and they would perform. That was after he retired, they'd perform. I mean, it was expected if Dalton Irene showed up, he was gonna sing, she was gonna play. Well, as they got older and their friends passed away, uh, they would ask my dad to sing at their funeral. And and most often the song that was requested is the old Negro spiritual Goin' Home. I bet you don't know that song in there.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

It's it's an old one, it's going home, going home. I'm just going home.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

And it's haunting. Anyway, so as my dad started to get older, and before he he lost his voice, he said, Look, I'm gonna go into a studio and I'm gonna record going home for my funeral. Wow. Put it on a cassette tape back when cassettes were a thing, gave it to my brother John and said, Look, nobody gets out of this life alive. At some point, I'm gonna expire at my funeral, near the end, to pop in this tape, but don't listen to it. Faithfully said he didn't. So we're all talking about my dad telling stories, and John says, Here's the story, and he pops it in. My dad's voice comes over the tases and he says, Well, if you're listening to this, it's pretty obvious I've gone to the great beyond. And I know two things for sure. One is I probably didn't die of natural causes, and two, I think the killer's in the room. So we all start laughing, and he tells the story about his friends, and I've always wanted to sing at my own funeral, so Iike is what he called my mom. She fires it up, he sings going home. We're all crying. And then at the end he said, Look, I don't know which way I'm going, up or down, but whichever way I'm going, I'm sure I'll see a lot of you there. Now, sing no sad songs for me. I married the love of my life. My parents were married for 65 years. I've got great kids, great grandkids, great great grandkids. Kids. So have fun, celebrate, sing those sad songs for me, and I'll see you around the pool home. And drop the mic. Was there ever anything he said about the trips we took, the cars we drove, the homes we owned? It was all about his friends, his family, his wife that he was crazy about for 65 years. That's what you remember from Dalton. That's a legacy of gratitude. That's a legacy of service. That's a life that was worth living.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Chester, that's incredible. I've never heard a story like that. That's straight out of a movie that I would watch. If Bill Murray was in it, right? Yeah. Of course. I imagine that with your habit of sending gratitude to people and uh consciously appreciating people and letting people know how much that they mean to you and scheduling time for that, that you receive a lot of the same gratitude that you wouldn't have if you didn't send it out there in the first place. Am I right?

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Oh, yeah. No, we talk about the ripple effect and the rebound effect, you know, the the giver and the receiver. Uh, absolutely. And um, again, back to my mentor, Marshall Goldsmith. You know, often when you receive a compliment or praise, um, and it's somewhat human nature, we tend to deflect. So, ah, Jack, that was a great podcast. Well, you know, it was a team efforty. You know, we say stuff like that. Oh no, it wouldn't have been a great podcast with if you didn't have great guests. Don't do that. And it was really interesting. I I was having a conversation with Marshall and I was deflecting. He said, Chester, stop. He said, Listen, I'm gonna teach you something really quick. And someone gives you a compliment or an expression of gratitude. It's a gift. And when you deflect it, you do three things. One is you diminish the gift, two, you insult the giver, and three, you stop getting gifts.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

And so what do you think he he coached me to do that when you receive a compliment? What is the only appropriate response?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Exactly. He said, just lead with thank you so much. That was so kind. I so appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

What's that? Do you give a compliment back?

SPEAKER_02 24:22

You can.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Understand though that that's again a diminisher, right? Interesting. So it's a diminisher, it negates someone else's compliment.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

A little bit, right? It's kind of like, hey, I just want to tell you, when you sang, that moved me so much. So, well, thank you very much. That's very kind. You know, I worked very hard to try to get that. You saying that means the world to me. Thank you so much, as opposed to, well, you know, I couldn't sing if there wasn't an audience.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

You know, you you watching me made me sing well.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah. I was watching you too, and boy, you know, what I'm saying is take the compliment. There's there's an expression in Italian that I just love. And you know, I I mentioned I just came back from a conference in Italy and it was fabulous. As people say, I thank you so much. I was really enjoyed your keynotes. Molto gentile. Well, thank you. Isn't that kind? Grazie molto gentile, which means thank you. That was a very kind, means the world to me that you would say that, that you would take the time to come up to me. And you know, often people come and say, You probably get this a lot. You were great. I go, I do, and I can never hear it too often. So thank you, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:34

So why do you think it's culturally taboo to be so accepting of a compliment? Why did so few people do it if it's actually what feels so good and if it's what feels good to the other person?

SPEAKER_02 25:47

You mean accepting the compliment? Right, yeah. Well, I think that, you know, there's this fake humility. Oh, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Fake humility.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Well, yeah, because, you know, uh, of course, if you've performed well, you want people to tell you it was a good job.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

So then why do we deflect it?

SPEAKER_02 26:03

I we we want people to think we're humble. We want people to think, you know, that oh, I'm I'm generous with the people around me. And in some cases that may be kind of true. You gotta start with thank you, though. Again, because if I'm giving you this wonderful gift and you and you blow me off, well then oh.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

You'll get it less.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

It's like, why are people not thanking me as much? Well, I don't say You don't value it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

And if it's not valued, then I'll stop giving it to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Chester, that's fascinating. It is interesting, isn't it? Yeah, I I've often wondered. I mean, it's my instinct. If now, if you tell me that this was a great podcast, I'm gonna consciously say, what? Well, thank you, Chester. But prior and most times, I would just say, well, no, it was all you. Yes. And something like that. And personally, I think that I'm doing the right thing. I think that it I should make it about the other person. But what you're saying is it's actually making it more about me.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Exactly. Yeah. And and by the way, wow. Down the road, you can say, and and listen, thank you very much. I worked very hard on my craft. I've been trying to get in my reps and become a better interviewer. And let me just say, you were a great guest. You know, um this is what really it's you know makes me want to do more is I've had great guests on my show. That that's fine. Now that's your gift back, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

It's the way that you say it. Yeah. Because you're saying the same thing. It's just the way that you deliver it and the timing with which you do so.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah. And you know, the more you do it, the better. Yeah. Um, I think too, what happens, so uh working on this book, I'm really uh jazzed about it, by the way. It's uh Grateful Life by Design. Okay. So, you know, Aisha Bruce, uh, my dear friend, is a wonderful designer. She's got some stuff at MoMA. She's a dear friend and she's delightful. She asked me a question a while ago. She goes, Chester, what's the most important thing in your life? And I said, Oh, it's my family. She goes, Great. Well, tell me about how you've designed time with your family and your family traditions into your life. And I went, Yeah, I don't do that. Interesting, you know. So what we say and what we do, right? Does it match up? So I took her course, this design the life you love. And uh then I took it with my wife. And I said, you know, we talk about family, but have have we designed it? And so one of the things that we decided to do as our children have gotten older and moved away, is created a place where we could gather. So we looked around and we found a lovely little place in upstate New York in the Adirondack. So are you familiar?

SPEAKER_00 28:37

I am, yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Up in New Hampshire, you know the Adirondack.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

We'd never been there before. We found a great little place. It was just a house and a dock and a little lake. And we've had it for 11 years now. Maybe this is year 12. And every year we bring everybody there. It's mutually inconvenient for everybody, right? I've got kids in Utah and Iowa and New Jersey, and it's a four and a half hour drive. We go there every year. We bring everybody, and it's our sacred place. It's one of the traditions that has made all the difference. We would not have done that without Aisha and without that design. So it begs the question: so that's a big thing. So, what are some of the simple things that you can design into your life to remind yourself of the things for which you are grateful? When we first started to write our books, my co-author Adrian Gostik and I, we wanted to come up with a symbol of gratitude. Do you know the Aesop's fable about the donkey, the stick, and the carrot?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Familiar, but say it again.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Okay, so the story has it that Aesop, the wise old man, is walking down the road and he sees a merchant who's got a cart full of goods and he's got a donkey, and the donkey is sitting and refuses to move. And the merchant keeps beating him with a stick to get him to move. And then the donkey digs in. And Aesop goes and he says, uh, clearly what you're doing isn't working. Have you tried a carrot? He goes, What do you mean? He said, offer the donkey a carrot, give him a little reward, give him a little encouragement. And of course the donkey gets up and is satisfied and moves on. So the idea is more gratitude, more carrots, less sticks. So the carrot became our symbol of gratitude. That's why I wear orange. Yeah. So when I present and people uh participate, we like to reward that participation and we reward them with a carrot. And I brought one for you here today, Jack. This is Garrett the Carrot. Wow. This is our little um mascot. And the idea, and and you will be amazed, Jack. So I present to audiences literally all over the world.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

And some of these people that I present to have more money than you and I can ever imagine. And they will go to extraordinary lengths to win that carrot. To win this carrot. Yeah, to name that tune or answer the little multiple choice question because it's a token, right? It's a little reminder.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

It's a reward.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I get pictures of people that they've put the carrot in their in their kids' crim. Yep. Their dog has torn it to shreds. They put it on their on their desk uh years later. And it's a wonderful little symbol. It's a little tradition. Now, the other thing that I do over the years that I've had more fun with than you can imagine is, and I'm sure you've heard the story of the good luck gratitude stone.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yes. But have you audio is it said in the Think and Grow Rich movie? No. No. Okay. That's a different gratitude stone.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

The reason I'm pretty sure you've never heard about the good luck st the tradition of the good luck gratitude stone is because I made it up.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

You made up the gratitude stone.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Okay. And that's all all tradition starts.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Somebody made it up at some point, right? Okay. There's another gratitude stone, but I want to hear, I want to hear your version.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

So the the the story is that the gratitude stones are all different and flawed. Like people. They're all singularly unique. The stone represents the ripple effect. The stone in the pond makes the water ripple. Like simple acts of kindness and generosity and service. And so you keep these stones with you to remind yourself of all the things for which you're grateful. And over time, it brings you good luck. The tradition is, though, it has to be gifted to you. And so again, Jack, I put a little gratitude stone. Whoops. Uh-oh. Not a slidey table. This is not a slidey table. There we go. We got it. Um and it's a very simple little thing. Now, I it's incredible. I never leave home without three or four of these stones. To give to random people, whether it's a flight attendant, whether it's a server at a restaurant, whether it's a ticket taker on the train. I'll tell you a really quick story of Barbara, flight attendant, flight from Salt Lake City to Newark. Newark's my airport. She was doing a fabulous job. You can tell she'd been doing it for decades. Immaculate uniform, taken care of everybody. Near the end of the flight, I said, Barbara, I've been watching you. You're doing a great job. She said, Well, thank you. I said, You got a million-dollar smile. She said, I'll tell my dentist. So I said, Do you do you have a minute? And she said, Yes, I've got a minute. I said, Do you know the story of the good like gratitude stone? And I start to tell her the story, and she gets really intense. She actually kneels down. I was on the aisle seat, and she's watching me tell the story. And then I do the little reveal. And I said, Barbara, the tradition is it has to be gifted, and then I save this one for you. And she goes, For me? And I said, Yes. She goes, I I get to keep it. I said, Absolutely, it's yours. And she got really quiet and she said, You have no idea how much this means to me. We don't get a lot of thank yous in our job anymore. I can't tell you how much this means to me. And she leaned over and kissed me on the cheek.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

And the lesson there is, Jack, you never know. Everybody's got something. Everybody has a need to be valued, to be appreciated. And that little stone meant the world to her. I've had people send me pictures.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

In my town, I live in Summit, New Jersey. Um, all the stores I've been to, they put a stone by the checkout.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

And I've had neighbors say, You've been here, haven't you? We see your stones. The reason I tell you that is not to say, wow, Chester, you're amazing, is that little rituals like that, they enrich not only the people's lives that you touch, they enrich your life. I've got a million stories of people that I've given little stones to. And I've got a friend in in London, and he said, You know what, Chester? He goes, I've been anxious my whole life. Every day I leave the house, I've got my phone, my wallet, and my gratitude stone. I never leave home without him. He says, Thank you. Great little traditions. Find your own. Whether it's thank you notes, carrots, stones.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Thank you. Yeah. It's it's a gift to be able to give to others.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah. Uh do you know who Cynthia Kerzy is? I do not. You do not? Okay. Well, she is going to be a guest on the podcast, has become a dear friend. She's the CEO of the Unstoppable Foundation.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

The Unstoppable Foundation.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And she wrote the book Unstoppable, but now she's writing a book called The Generosity Effect.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

And the Unstoppable Foundation, it's incredible. They build schools and in 10 years function uh autonomously functioning communities in Kenya, in Africa. Nice. It's incredible. David Meltzer, who I am sure you're familiar with, who's big in the gratitude space. He's a part of that part of the Unstoppable Foundation. And when Cynthia first started, she hosted uh, I think it was her 50th birthday. She hosted uh a party for herself. And to go to the party, you donated to the foundation. And what people told her was, thank you for giving me the opportunity to give.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

To give, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

And it's one of the things my dad taught me.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

He said, when you know people ask you for a favor, the only response is thank you for asking. Means the world to me. Right? I'll I'll tell you a cute story. I was after church, and this uh young uh guy comes up to my dad and says, uh, you know, Brother Elton, can I ask you for a favor? He said, sure, whatever. He says, uh, I need a ride home. Can I get a ride home? He goes, absolutely no problem. Well, a few minutes go by and he comes back. He says, Well, Brother Walton, by the way, uh, you live in West Vancouver. I live in North Vancouver. It's out of your way. I'll I'll I'll find a ride with someone else. He goes, Stop. He said, You asked me for a favor. And I said, Yes. If it was convenient, it wouldn't be a favor. Get in the car. Tell me more about that. Well, you know, if someone asks you for a favor, it's going to be inconvenient. That's why it's a favor, right? And once you say yes, I've got a great friend, um Gary, Gary Ridge. He just retired as the CEO of WD40, wonderful guy, delightful Aussie. And I remember asking him, and I said, Hey, Gary, may I ask you for a favor? And he said, Yes, you can, but I want you to be very careful. And I thought, ah, I didn't know Gary very well at the time. And I thought, uh-oh, he's gonna put all these parameters on it. And he said, I want you to be very careful what you ask for. And I said, Oh, really? Why? He says, Because I'm gonna say yes. And I've used that line. Can I ask you a favorite? Yeah, but be careful because I'm gonna say yes. You know?

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yeah. I think that the way you speak about gratitude and the way you speak about all of these things, it feels so natural to me. Yeah, it's it's counterintuitive to a lot of culture. And I imagine that a lot of listeners would get that ex that same experience where it feels natural to want to give to people and want to be human, yet we don't really do this enough. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

You know, we're by nature uh hunter-gatherers, right? And so we take. Um, again, back to Marshall. Uh, I never forget I went to one of his book launches and asked him if he would endorse a book. And he said, absolutely happy to do it. And I said, Marshall, you don't really know me that well. And you said yes right away. Why? And he said, you know what, Jester, there's two kinds of people in the world. There's those that want to compete with everyone, and there are those that want to lift up everyone. He said, I'm the latter, and it's a better way to live. And at the time, he was telling me this, I was the former.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Absolutely. You know, we wanted to be the highest-rated speaker, we wanted to sell the most books, we wanted to be the smartest and the funniest. And at that moment, I thought, you know, he's right, it's better. And then it brought back all the things I've learned as a kid in my faith and in my mission and so on. And then you forget as you get in the rat race of achieving and promoting and making more and doing more. And then you step back and you go, yeah, okay. So how do I want to be remembered?

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Have you heard of the platinum rule? The platinum rule? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

No.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

So you talk about how you're going to give to someone, it's going to be inconvenient, right? And we're really familiar with the golden rule in our society.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Treat people the way you want to be treated.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Right. But what if it was treat people the way that they want to be treated? Because sometimes the way that you receive something is not the way that someone else is going to best receive something. You know about the love, love languages, right? Yeah. So sometimes maybe you're a gift giver and you love receiving gifts as well. But the person that you want to give to, they might be more of a quality time type of person.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

They might you mean there's people out there that don't like fountain pens and stamps? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Possibly. Right. And so the way that you want to give gratitude to someone, the most convenient way for you might not always be the most effective.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

I think you're absolutely right. We we talk about this all the time is know your team. You know, ask them how do they want to be rewarded, recognized, praised. Because you're right. I mean, I I had this happen with my co-author, Adrian Gostek. We wrote a book and I said we should celebrate. We were working for a bigger company at the time. And I said, you know, um, Men in Black, it's this cool movie. They've got this really cool Hamilton, you know, Delta watches. Let's get a carrot put on it. Let's, you know, have them present them to us in front of all the salespeople. It'd be great. And they're just like, I don't wear watches.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Huh.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

But I I didn't ask him. I presented him with this watch. If you want a really cool men in black Delta Hamilton watch, he's got one in mint condition in the original box. So yeah, you're right. I like that the platinum rule um treat people's way they want to be treated, because you can get that wrong.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think if you're over-optimizing for the golden rule, you can sometimes make people feel a little unappreciated or unheard or unseen.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Because you project what you exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah. So that's a little something Chris Shembra has taught me that. Um, and it it's I think it's really, really powerful for the world that we live in today because we live in what's becoming a frictionless world. There's always solutions being brought out to make things easier, faster, quicker with less friction. And sometimes that can atrophy the real human aspects of life by completely automating your outreach to people, for example, you become less human. You blend in with everyone else. And if you design friction, designed friction for certain parts, like obviously you're not going to be able to do everything human. That's the point of technology. We've atrophied our ability to use like our internal sense of direction through GPS, but overall we're stronger with it, right? But with things such as outreach and human connection, those things need to have friction to them, or else they don't have the reward.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Yeah, I think you're right. There's such easy solutions, you know. Um weight loss is the latest one, right? Yes. Just take a shot, you'll be fine. Instead of, well, why don't you just eat better and exercise?

SPEAKER_03 42:40

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yeah, there's there's there's great wisdom in the struggle, right? What what is it? The obstacle is the way that the Stoics, yes, Marcus Aurelius, right? Yeah, the the the there's there's there's great um benefit to struggle. I I agree with you. I think one of the reasons that um knowing your ancestry is so important is that you realize that your ancestors did hard things. Yeah. And because they did hard things, you can do hard things. But I can tell we're at time.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Chester, I always ask this question as we start to get into the final 25% of our of our podcast. What's one question that I haven't asked so far that you think would be most important?

SPEAKER_02 43:25

I think you've asked a lot of the good questions. Um, I I I think the question is is um why does this not translate into more of our public discourse?

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

You know, I I'm constantly disappointed and and discouraged at the language that we use in public discourse. You know, I I I grew up in an in an age when you know, to curse, it wasn't just considered vulgar, and it is. It was a sign of a poor education and a poor upbringing. And yet our language right now has just denigrated to it's it it it's it's hard to watch a movie or even reading books or in public discourse where people just don't drop F bombs all over the place. And and and and I I find that so sad because you know when you're writing books or you keynote and you speak, that is so lazy and so insulting to the listener. And yet it's become celebrated. Oh, isn't that clever? Aren't they edgy? Oh, isn't she, you know, just out there? And I think, you know, that's that's so sad that that is now celebrated. And it's just getting worse and worse and worse. You know, even our athletes. I mean, I'm I was watching some senator talking about some bell posing in front of the Brooklyn Bridge. Let me just say this. And this is a guy that's in his 60s or 70s. No F and Way. I go, oh well, isn't that clever? And I just, you know, I I can't tell you how many books I've stopped reading or or shows I've just stopped watching because it was just so discouraging that the writers couldn't think of a better word than that. Now, that's the creative part. In our political discourse, I mean the words that that people use to denigrate each other ad hominem type. Oh, well, it's you know, and it may listen, there's no I'm I'm not a political animal by any means, but it starts at the top. I mean, we we've got an you know an executive branch of our of you know in the United States right now that is uh beyond vulgar and crass and inconsiderate and unkind. And yet everybody goes, ah, he's my guy, he's the best. Really? That's that's that's your standard of excellence. I mean, forget the policy, forget the what's going on, but the the language has has has gotten so yeah, and and of course, if if if you're in a state of gratitude and kindness and service, that's not the language you use. Those aren't the words that you use to encourage and build someone up. Those aren't the words of of of thank you and and and kindness and service. So yeah, we're that's my sermon for no, I really appreciate.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

I really appreciate that. I wonder where we go from here, especially with my generation. I'm sure working with leaders in the workplace, you see it all the time with Gen Z and the way that there's kind of I'll tie it back to your argument in a second. But there in this newest generation, there's a sense of entitlement to reward now without necessarily going through the hardship and the struggles and the experiences that build up the skills and the wisdom to then know those things and do those things and get those results. And I see a huge divide among my generation in terms of just it's very gender-specific, actually, in terms of uh going down like political spectrum, women to the left, young men to the right. I mean, statistically, young men, my demographic uh are the reason that we have uh Donald Trump in power at the moment. And uh it's really interesting to me to look at the different leadership styles and the different things that are um exciting to the different people in my generation, the different demographics, and try to predict the future and at the same time try to understand what is it that is going to heal some of the wounds in our country, in our world at the moment. What is it that's going to get people to start prioritizing kindness and leadings with gratitude at not just an individual scale, but a larger, holistic national level. Where do we go from here? I mean, we're not, neither of us, you're way high like smarter. You've done this longer than I have, much more experience. But I mean, I don't believe that either of us on an individual scale can shift the entire country or the world, but I think we can have ideas of where we go from here and how we start to make a solution to that problem that you just said of the denigration, of the ad hominem attacks, of the vulgarity of leadership everywhere in the world right now. What do we do?

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Well, you're right. I mean, you can't boil the ocean, as the expression goes. You can't control what you can control. You know, I I I can make a difference in a flight attendant's day. I can make a difference in in in my server. I can be kind to the guy who's begging on the corner. I can do that. I'm not going to change the discourse at the table for the peace talks. You know, they're not going to invite me. They should, but they won't. So rather than focus on what you can't control, and that's most of this conversation. You you control what you can't control. You know, the way you treat your neighbors, your kids, you know, the school teachers. And bit by bit, right? And bit by bit. There was a great story my wife told me the other day of um a college football player. And he wasn't the star. Um, in fact, he was one of the smaller players on the team. It was really interesting, though, uh, a reporter was saying, he said, I we noticed that when he comes into the locker room, uh, everybody stops swearing. And they go, yeah, yeah, he doesn't swear. And so we don't swear around him. He's the nicest guy ever. We love him to death. And this is the one thing that we know bothers him. And they said, Well, what happens when, you know, he was a running back? What happens when he gets tackled and people jump up and they swear at him and curse him out? He jumps up and says, Nice hit. He goes back to the huddle. You know, he responds with kindness. And the reporter said, What would your reaction be if you ever heard him swear? And he goes, I would be so disappointed. So, you know, keep your own standard and let that ripple. You know, and and I I I've even said to people, I know it's a word you use a lot. I'd really appreciate it if you just didn't use it around me. You know, I come from a very religious family, and and people will take the Lord's name in vain often. And I'll say, look, I I I get that's the way you talk, and it's not offensive to you, but it kind of hurts my heart. So if if you could just do me a favor when you're around me, if you could just watch that little bit, I go, Oh, I'm so sorry. Not a problem. It's great. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

You're unapologetic in your standards for the way that you live your life.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Well, sure. You know, I I think one of the things that we do our friends and neighbors at disservice is when we let stuff slide. Don't let it slide. Say, hey, by the way, uh, we don't talk like that in our house. So, you know, when you're in your house, you can say whatever you want. When when you're in our house, uh, it's just a little shows a little bit more respect. So if you could do me a favor.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Well, I mean, group uh herd mentality is something that's study the law. I'm not too familiar with all the research. I'm not gonna act like I am, but I mean, something I know I notice all the time is just the way that someone acts around you when you have your standards versus how they act in a group, or even personally, how I act uh in this situation, which is how I act in a group, right? You you can oftentimes you get brought down to the lowest common denominator.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Well, sure. You know, one of the things that that I was called on, and look, uh, I I've gone through phases where my language that you know needed some help too. And I'll never forget, you know, a friend of mine pulled me aside and said, you know, uh, you shouldn't talk like that. You're better than that. I went, you're right. Thank you. Yeah. You know, um, being kind doesn't always mean being nice.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

What's the difference?

SPEAKER_02 52:31

Well, it would be unkind for me not to not to pull you aside and say, hey Jack, you're better than that.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

You're better than that. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Yeah. I think that niceness and kindness are very, very confused with each other.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Yeah. No, listen, you know, mar Marshall uh is great on that. He said, look, it I I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't pull you aside and say, you know, when you deflect compliments, you know, you insult the giver, you're gonna stop getting gifts and you diminish the gift.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

And you know what? Thank you, Marshall. You're right. I'm gonna stop doing that.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Chester, I'm so grateful for this conversation. Uh it's about time that uh had such a gratitude guru on the show, such as yourself. And I really I have a lot I did a lot of preparation for this. I listened to a ton of your speeches, interviews that you've done. I wrote down questions on a document, had had stuff out. Yeah, what I find makes for the best conversation is just coming in and doing this. And uh setting the scene where I want to, connecting, and then just seeing where it goes. And I love where you took it. Oh, thank you. I think this is where the world needs it right now.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

And this is our little bit, right?

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

Yes. Hopefully make a little bit of a difference and a little bit more, a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

So if the listener listening to this can do one thing to just live a more grateful, impactful life right now, what's that one thing?

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Yeah, I would say, look, just let your default be kind. Let your default be assume positive intent about people and realize that everybody's got something. Everybody's carrying a load. It costs nothing to be kind. You know, little little gestures, little acts of kindness. It's not a soft skill, it's a power skill. And there's nothing better than than being able to lift somebody up just a little bit. And the more you do it, the better life you'll have. You know, be kind, be grateful, be of service. It's a great mantra.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

It's pretty good. I mean, do you know the word sonder? Sonder.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

There's a bank called Sonder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

What you just described is Sonder. Everybody has a story. So right now we can hear the horns hawking in New York City. That hopefully the listener probably won't be able to hear that, but we hear it. And we know that there are people walking by everywhere. Millions of people here. Every one of those people has a life.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Has got a story.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

They have a story. They have struggles, they have highs, they have lows, they have people. That saunder, the recognition that everybody has a story. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's got a story. Amazing. Thank you very much. Yes, it's been amazing. Where can my audience find you?

SPEAKER_02 55:16

Uh, thecultureworks.com is our main uh website. Um, Chesterelton.com is another good one. Uh, we're all over LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

We do lots of, we've got a gratitude journal we publish twice a month. Uh, with it, it's all free. And um, yeah, just follow us on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Boom. Amazing. Chester, this has been the Grateful Podcast. Appreciate you. Cheers. Amazing.